We do not have the baptism for John.
But I think the photo of the little girl that Donna has ties the families together.
So this section is still on probation - I am making lots of assumptions.
Max's tree shows John Willis baptised Slaidburn 1797 - but I have not found it referenced elsewhere. That is not to say I doubt it, all the other info I have checked from that tree has been correct and he does give a date not just the year.
From Clapham Parish Register (Findmypast)
John Willis of this parish bachelor
and Nancy Horner of this parish spinster
married by banns
third day October 1826
by Jas Robinson Curate
both made their marks
witnesses Thos (Oldfield?)
Ellen Leech her mark
1841 census
Clapham with Newby
all born Yorkshire
John Willis 40 Ag Lab
Nancy 35
Bridget 12
Ellen 7
Isabella 5
Henry 3
William 3 months
Edward 35 (Fioller????) possible death MarQ 1847 Settle
I think Edward is John's brother, the one baptised as Edmund.
Bridget the daughter, named for John's mother.
I have used a tree on ancestry by Paul Dixon.
1851 Clapham
John Willis 53 pauper Ag lab born Ing
Nancy 46
Ellen 17
Henry 12
William 8
John 6
Thomas 4
apart from John, all born Clapham
described as a pauper but so were the other ag lab on this page
1861 Clapham
John Willis Wid. 63 Ag Lab born Easington
Isabella 34 Housekeeper born Clapham
John 16 Platelayers lab. born Clapham
John W Horner nephew 4 born Settle
Bridget Leech 22 visitor born Clapham
servant out of place
1871 Clapham
John Willis Wid. 73 Ag Lab born Ing
Alice Maudsley Wid. 51 servant born Cowside
Henry Kaley 53 lodger journeyman blacksmith
born Cheshire
Probate 1879
John Willis late of Clapham cattle dealer died 8 Aug 1879 to Thomas Willis of 23 Chester road Tuebrook near Liverpool, engineer the son. Effects under £800
(Donna I think the photo of the little girl is the daughter of Thomas, granddaughter of John Willis)
possible death reg. from freebmd site
MarQ 1861 Settle, Nancy Willis
SepQ 1879 Settle, John Willis age 81
children of John Willis and Nancy Horner baptised at Clapham
Ann Willis c. 6 May 1827
Bridget Willis c. 15 Mar 1829
Jane Willis c. 26 May 1831 bur. 4 May 1837 Clapham
Ellen Willis c.1833
Isabella Willis c. 21 May 1836
Henry Willis c. 21 Jun 1838
William Willis c. 16 May 1841
John Willis c. 20 May 1843 death JunQ 1843 Settle
John Willis c. 16 Jul 1844
Thomas Willis
..............................................................................................
Ann Willis born 1827
marriage on ancestry
Liverpool St Philip 21 Jan 1850
Charles Wells stonemason Laznean St, father William stonemason
Ann Willis Bold Place, father John farmer
both signed
witnesses Joseph Miles, Bridget Willis
1841Clapham
Restus? (near Turnerford)
William Dawson 55 ind
Isabella 40
Ann Willis 14 F. S
John Turner 70 Ag lab
1851 Liverpool
Charles Wells 30 stonemason born Latham
Ann 23 born Clapham
Bridget Willis 22 milliner dressmaker
wife's sister born Clapham
1861 Gloucester St, Griffin Hotel
Liverpool
Charles Wells 40 Licenced victualler
Ann 33
Bridget Willis 31 sister-in-law barmaid
Mary Ceekhall gen. ser.
probate 1868
Charles Wells late of Wilton Street, Liverpool victualler died 8 Sept 1868 to John Clayton of 25 Stark street Liverpool Publican effects under £200.
..................................................................................
Bridget Willis born 1829
1841 living in Clapham with her parents
1851 living in Liverpool with sister Ann
1861 living in Liverpool with sister Ann
1871 Liverpool, Mount Pleasant, Russell Street
Bertha Willis 41 Publican born Clapham
Henry Willis 33 Publican born Clapham
Mary Anne Alderson 20 servant born Clapham
probate 1874 Bridget otherwise Bertha Willis late of Berry-street Liverpool spinster died 23 May 1874 to John Willis of Clapham cattle dealer the father next of kin effects under £200
.....................................................................................
Ellen Willis born 1833
1841 living in Clapham with her parents
1851 living in Clapham with her parents
marriage on Ancestry
Everton St. Peter 27 Feb 1859
Robert Edwards 28 watchmaker 29 Field St, father Robert Coachman
Ellen Willis 25 112 Field St, father John Labourer
both signed
witnesses Charles Lowcock jun. Bridget Willis
1861 Liverpool 12 Limes St.
Robert Edwards 30 watchEnape? maker born Prescott
Ellen 27 born Clapham
John 1 born Liverpool
Martha 2m born Liverpool
possible death DecQ 1868 West Derby Ellen Edwards age 35
.......................................................................................
Isabella Willis born 1836
used MaryCooper43 tree on ancestry
1841 living in Clapham with her parents
1851 Liverpool 48 Dale St.
Isabella Willis 16 servant born Clapham
(to a Victuler)
1861living in Clapham with widowed father
marriage on findmypast Clapham
24 Oct 1861
John Johnson miner, groom Clapham father William labourer
Isabella Willis of age, father John labourer
both signed
unusually there are 5 witnesses - all signed not sure if I am reading them correctly
Mary Dean?, Tho Shelvey? Thomas Preston
John Story Dean, Mary Johnson
1871 Clapham
John Johnson 27 Ag lab born Wenning Bank
Isabella 35 born Clapham
Mary A 7
Thomas H 5
William 2
Matthew 2 months
Isabella Sarton 45 nurse born London
1881 Wray
Mill cottages
John Johnson 37 Coachman born Clapham
Isabella 45 " "
Mary A 17 dressmaker " "
Thomas H 15 silk dresser " "
William 11 " "
Matthew 10 " "
Isabella 7 born Yealand
Agnes Ellen 3 " "
John 7 months " "
1891 Hornby
John Johnson 49 coachman born Clapham
Isabella 55 " "
Thomas Henry 25 silk dresser " "
Agnes Ellen 13 born Yealand Conyers
John 10 born Lancaster
Frederick Walter 8 born Wray
John father, did 79 general lab. born Garstang
1901 Bolton le Sands
Hawkshead West Lodge
John Johnson 60 coachman born Clapham
Isabella 66 " "
William 31 silk dresser " "
Matthew 30 silk dresser " "
John 20 coachman born Lancaster
Agnes E 23 born Yealand Conyers
Isabella Hayes 27 day married born Yealand Conyers
1911 Bolton le Sands
West Lodge Hawkshead Bolton le Sands
John Johnson 68 coachman born Clapham
Isabella 74 " "
Agnes Ellen 33 born Yealand Conyers
Ellen Marion Hayes 9 granddad. born Skerton Lancaster
They had been married 49 years had 9 children 1 had died.
death reg.
DecQ 1919 Lancaster John Johnson age 76
DecQ 1926 Ulverstone Isabella Johnson age 90
................................................................................
Henry Willis born 1838
1841 living with parents in Clapham
1851 living with parents in Clapham
1861 Liverpool
25 Dale Street
Henry Willis age 22 born Clapham
one of 4 barmen at a licensed victualler
1871 living with his sister Bertha/Bridget
birth reg. JunQ 1838 Settle Henry Willis
death reg. DecQ 1876 West Derby Henry Willis age 39
..................................................................................
William Willis born 1841
birth MarQ 1841 Settle William Willis
1841 living with parents in Clapham
1851 living with parents in Clapham
1861 Liverpool, Mount Pleasant
50 Ranelagh? St
Henry Langsketh 29 Grocer born Bentham
Elizabeth 26 sister housekeeper born Bentham
Joseph Collins 20 boarder grocers app born Cumberland
William Willis 19 boarder grocers app born Clapham
Richard Foster 15 nephew grocer merchants app born Bentham
don"t know what happened to him after
.....................................................................................
birth JunQ 1843 Settle John Willis
death JunQ 1843 Settle John Willis
.....................................................................................
John Willis born 1844
birth JunQ 1844 Settle John Willis
death Mar Q 1919 West Derby John Willis age 78
wife's death JunQ West Derby Mary Willis age 64 (b. 1845)
1851 living with parents in Clapham
1861 living with father in Clapham
1871 West Derby
57 Romily St
John Willis 26 labourer born Clapham
Mary 27 born Kirkby
Annie 2 born Liverpool
Thomas Willis 24 brother born Clapham
Will Molyneaux 30 brother in law born Kirkby
Isabella " 27 sister in law born Cumberland
Mary Cressley 59 born Cumberland
marriage
Everton St Peter 22 Jan 1866
John Willis 22 labourer 23 Watmough St father John farmer
Mary Tyrer 22 " " father Henry farmer
both signed
witnesses James Leonard, Catherine Farrington
children of John Willis and Mary Tyrer
Annie Willis
Ellen Willis
Henry Willis
Margaret Nancy Willis
Henry Willis
Albert Willis
2 missing
1881 West Derby
37 Radcliffe St. Everton
John Willis 36 cab owner born Clapham
Mary 37 born Kirby
Annie 12 born Liverpool
Ellen 9 " "
Margaret 4 " "
Henry 2 " "
Samuel Cropper 42 lodger born Liverpool
Edmund Harper 26 lodger born Manchester
1891 West Derby
19 Cobden Street
John Willis 46 general labourer born Clapham
Mary 46 born Kirby
Nellie 19 cigarett maker born Liverpool
Marat 14 domestic nurse " "
Henry 12 " "
Albert 9 " "
Saml Cropper 52 boarder cotton porter (dock)
Andrew Rolands 37 " furniture remover
1901 Everton
19 Cobden Street
John Willes 56 cotton porter (dock) born Clapham
Mary 56 born Kirby
Henry 22 cotton porter (dock) born Liverpool
Albert 19 cotton porter (dock) " "
James Morgan 54 boarder printing compositor
Jane Chester 40 " born Liverpool
1911 19 Cobden Street
John Willis 67 porter (warehouse?) cotton born Clapham
married 44 years, 8 children born, 3 died
Margaret Hogben dau. mar. 8 years, 2 children born Liverpool
John Hogben 8 grandson " "
Ann Jane Brown 56 ?
Bessie Fitzsimons 58 ?
...............................................................................
Thomas Willis
Monday 27 January 2020
Parish
Slaidburn
genuki Slaidburn has useful information about the parish.
In particular under maps the one showing parish boundaries is an old map showing the old names.
You can enlarge the view so it is possible to read the names.
Near the green number 280, there is the name Old Ing which might be relevant to John Willis eldest son of Henry. It is near Easington. Close by is Clapham Common and Austwick Common. So if the Willis family lived in this part when they married they were close to Clapham parish. If you scroll to the left you will find Botton Head which I think is where Nicholas Willis was in 1841. Further over to the left near the green number 133 is Over Wyresdale and just below it is Doe Holme the farm where John Remington and Isabella Leech lived, and where Richard and Isabella Slinger ended up.
Clapham
I am slowly slowly making my own transcript of the parish register from findmypast starting with baptisms 1748 - 82. It is in a clear hand and mostly notes residence. Gentry indicated by use of Mr. craftsmen noted, but farmers and agricultural labourers making up the majority no occupation. Some page corners bent hiding part of entries.
Again genuki Clapham has useful information about the parish. The parish boundaries old map shows the village of Clapham near the green number 276. Just to the left you can find Tewit Hall, where Nicholas was born, Green Close and three squares below Dubgarth where Ann was born.
For the Remingtons over to the left going towards Ingleton you can see Yarlsber where our Jane Remington lived with her daughter.
A modern map by googling Slaidburn farms is also useful. If you try Clapham farms it gives you a map of London Clapham. But you can move the Slaidburn round. Tewitt farm is signed twice, on one of them is a photo - do not know if it is the right building but it is stone.
There is a lovely photo of Dubgarth - google Dubgarth Harling (rootsweb website).
genuki Slaidburn has useful information about the parish.
In particular under maps the one showing parish boundaries is an old map showing the old names.
You can enlarge the view so it is possible to read the names.
Near the green number 280, there is the name Old Ing which might be relevant to John Willis eldest son of Henry. It is near Easington. Close by is Clapham Common and Austwick Common. So if the Willis family lived in this part when they married they were close to Clapham parish. If you scroll to the left you will find Botton Head which I think is where Nicholas Willis was in 1841. Further over to the left near the green number 133 is Over Wyresdale and just below it is Doe Holme the farm where John Remington and Isabella Leech lived, and where Richard and Isabella Slinger ended up.
Clapham
I am slowly slowly making my own transcript of the parish register from findmypast starting with baptisms 1748 - 82. It is in a clear hand and mostly notes residence. Gentry indicated by use of Mr. craftsmen noted, but farmers and agricultural labourers making up the majority no occupation. Some page corners bent hiding part of entries.
Again genuki Clapham has useful information about the parish. The parish boundaries old map shows the village of Clapham near the green number 276. Just to the left you can find Tewit Hall, where Nicholas was born, Green Close and three squares below Dubgarth where Ann was born.
For the Remingtons over to the left going towards Ingleton you can see Yarlsber where our Jane Remington lived with her daughter.
A modern map by googling Slaidburn farms is also useful. If you try Clapham farms it gives you a map of London Clapham. But you can move the Slaidburn round. Tewitt farm is signed twice, on one of them is a photo - do not know if it is the right building but it is stone.
There is a lovely photo of Dubgarth - google Dubgarth Harling (rootsweb website).
Sunday 26 January 2020
Henry Willis
I am working from other peoples research, which I shall acknowledge. I do try to confirm records but it is not always possible to do so. Therefore I shall colour information that I have verified. I also want to note records it would be helpful to look at.
..........................................................
Henry Willis lived and died before the census and civil registration. We only have limited information to go on. We do not know where he came from.
This information on the Willis family came from Max's Tree which used to be online - I think from the Trewartha family.
Henry Willis married Slaidburn parish church 11Feb 1797
Bridget Turner
their children
John Willis christened Slaidburn 25 Dec 1797
Ellen Willis christened Slaidburn 29 Nov 1799
(I have not found these two in the indexes of Slaidburn on Ancestry)
Edmund Willis christened Clapham *
Henry Willis christened Clapham 8 Nov 1807 born 8 Oct 1807, Dubgarth
Ann Willis christened Clapham 5 Oct 1812 born 5 Sep 1812, Dubgarth
Isabella Willis christened Clapham 5 June 1814, Green Close
Nicholas Willis christened Clapham 17 Oct 1819, Tewit Hall, farmer
Joseph Willis christened Clapham 2 Oct 1821, Tewit Hall
.........................................................................................................
The images of the parish register of Clapham is on Findmypast.
Henry Willis of Clapham was buried there 29 Dec 1831 aged 24 (son)
Bridget Willis of Clapham buried 26 June 1833 age 55 (wife)
Henry Willis of Clapham buried 29 Jan 1834 age 78
Joseph Willis of Austwick buried 20 March 1834 age 86.
At this time I do not think this Joseph is related to Henry.
His death was in the Lancaster Gazette March 22 1834
On the 17th inst. at Austwick Mr Joseph Willis at the advanced age of 86, father of Mr. Willis, solicitor of this town.
None of our Willis's deaths were in the newspapers.
I do not think Henry left a will either.
Early wills for this area are at Lancashire Records Office in Preston.
There are two we should look at - both I do not think are our Willis.
For the above
WRW/L/R643/105 1 May 1834
Joseph Willis, Yeoman, Austwick
and probably from his family
WRW/L/R635/102 13 Apr 1811
Joseph Willis, Yeoman, Austwick
If Henry had made a will it would be there.
..................................................................................................
*I think this was a mistake, and should have been Edward.
Only the father noted as Henry.
Bridget's father was Edward, it could be that Henry's father was John. Bridget's oldest brother also called John.
Note the gap between Edmund/Edward and Henry 6 years.
This was the time of the Napoleonic wars. The country feared an invasion by Napoleon.
notesfrombywaters.co.uk mentions 1803 muster rolls of Austwick, and 1807 registers of electors in Clapham and Austwick.
If the age on the burial is correct Henry Willis would have been born about 1756.
There seems to be a big age gap between Henry and Bridget. (20 years)
..................................................................................................
The parish register for Slaidburn is at Lancashire record office.
But I did find Bishop Transcript marriages for Slaidburn on Findmypast.
Henry Willis of the parish of Slaidburn Husbandman
and Bridget Turner of the same parish Spinster
were married in this church by publication of Banns
this Eleventh day of Febuary in the year one thousand seven hundred and
ninty seven.
By me Joseph Bowman curate
Henry Willis
Bridget Turner - her mark
In the presence of
Henry Maudsley
Wm Slaiter
Wm Slaiter was witness to many of the marriages, so probably has no relevance.
Henry Willis could sign his name.
He was probably a tenant farmer (husbandman).
Bridget Turner was a local girl - we will look at her family later.
Her parents were Edward Turner and Ellen Heaton, and they had a large family from the look of it.
Speculation - the two names of the Willis children which do not appear in Bridget's immediate family are Ann and Nicholas so they might be Willis names.
..........................................................
Henry Willis lived and died before the census and civil registration. We only have limited information to go on. We do not know where he came from.
This information on the Willis family came from Max's Tree which used to be online - I think from the Trewartha family.
Henry Willis married Slaidburn parish church 11Feb 1797
Bridget Turner
their children
John Willis christened Slaidburn 25 Dec 1797
Ellen Willis christened Slaidburn 29 Nov 1799
(I have not found these two in the indexes of Slaidburn on Ancestry)
Edmund Willis christened Clapham *
Henry Willis christened Clapham 8 Nov 1807 born 8 Oct 1807, Dubgarth
Ann Willis christened Clapham 5 Oct 1812 born 5 Sep 1812, Dubgarth
Isabella Willis christened Clapham 5 June 1814, Green Close
Nicholas Willis christened Clapham 17 Oct 1819, Tewit Hall, farmer
Joseph Willis christened Clapham 2 Oct 1821, Tewit Hall
.........................................................................................................
The images of the parish register of Clapham is on Findmypast.
Henry Willis of Clapham was buried there 29 Dec 1831 aged 24 (son)
Bridget Willis of Clapham buried 26 June 1833 age 55 (wife)
Henry Willis of Clapham buried 29 Jan 1834 age 78
Joseph Willis of Austwick buried 20 March 1834 age 86.
At this time I do not think this Joseph is related to Henry.
His death was in the Lancaster Gazette March 22 1834
On the 17th inst. at Austwick Mr Joseph Willis at the advanced age of 86, father of Mr. Willis, solicitor of this town.
None of our Willis's deaths were in the newspapers.
I do not think Henry left a will either.
Early wills for this area are at Lancashire Records Office in Preston.
There are two we should look at - both I do not think are our Willis.
For the above
WRW/L/R643/105 1 May 1834
Joseph Willis, Yeoman, Austwick
and probably from his family
WRW/L/R635/102 13 Apr 1811
Joseph Willis, Yeoman, Austwick
If Henry had made a will it would be there.
..................................................................................................
*I think this was a mistake, and should have been Edward.
Only the father noted as Henry.
Bridget's father was Edward, it could be that Henry's father was John. Bridget's oldest brother also called John.
Note the gap between Edmund/Edward and Henry 6 years.
This was the time of the Napoleonic wars. The country feared an invasion by Napoleon.
notesfrombywaters.co.uk mentions 1803 muster rolls of Austwick, and 1807 registers of electors in Clapham and Austwick.
If the age on the burial is correct Henry Willis would have been born about 1756.
There seems to be a big age gap between Henry and Bridget. (20 years)
..................................................................................................
The parish register for Slaidburn is at Lancashire record office.
But I did find Bishop Transcript marriages for Slaidburn on Findmypast.
Henry Willis of the parish of Slaidburn Husbandman
and Bridget Turner of the same parish Spinster
were married in this church by publication of Banns
this Eleventh day of Febuary in the year one thousand seven hundred and
ninty seven.
By me Joseph Bowman curate
Henry Willis
Bridget Turner - her mark
In the presence of
Henry Maudsley
Wm Slaiter
Wm Slaiter was witness to many of the marriages, so probably has no relevance.
Henry Willis could sign his name.
He was probably a tenant farmer (husbandman).
Bridget Turner was a local girl - we will look at her family later.
Her parents were Edward Turner and Ellen Heaton, and they had a large family from the look of it.
Speculation - the two names of the Willis children which do not appear in Bridget's immediate family are Ann and Nicholas so they might be Willis names.
Geography
By coincidence we went on the winter cumbrian mountain express by the railway touring company on Saturday. A steam hauled excursion over the picturesque Settle Carlisle line. We have done this tour many times and it never fails to deliver a memorable experience.
For myself, it is the route that is of the most interest because the whole day has me glued to the window. Nearly the whole way has some kind of significance in terms of family history. Not having a car this is the closest I get to some of the areas.
Part of the route passes east from Clitheroe to join the Settle line at Hellifield, then north through Settle. It is skirting the area the Willis family lived.
As the train pulls way east of Clitheroe the land slowly rises up and it becomes less inhabited with lonely stone farmhouses. The green of the valley contrasting to the harsher uplands. Even though it was only January lambs were gambling about the fields. I guess ours was the first steam train they had seen. Past Horton in Ribblesdale the landscape is true mountains and moorland. Today the cloud sat full square on the tops - grey dampness. I've seen this land graced with glorious blue skies and bright sunlight, I've ridden above the clouds sunken in the valleys, another time the land was blanketed in snow but perhaps today we experienced the more common conditions desolate wild muted colours. There were still many walkers wrapped up warm, around Ribbleshead.
A series of valleys separated by uplands runs west to east.
......................................................................................
mountains
valley - Bentham, Ingleton, Clapham (from Lancaster in the west to Settle in the east)
upland - Forest of Bowland - Slaidburn
valley - Clitheroe, Remington, Gisburn
.........................................................................................
For myself, it is the route that is of the most interest because the whole day has me glued to the window. Nearly the whole way has some kind of significance in terms of family history. Not having a car this is the closest I get to some of the areas.
Part of the route passes east from Clitheroe to join the Settle line at Hellifield, then north through Settle. It is skirting the area the Willis family lived.
As the train pulls way east of Clitheroe the land slowly rises up and it becomes less inhabited with lonely stone farmhouses. The green of the valley contrasting to the harsher uplands. Even though it was only January lambs were gambling about the fields. I guess ours was the first steam train they had seen. Past Horton in Ribblesdale the landscape is true mountains and moorland. Today the cloud sat full square on the tops - grey dampness. I've seen this land graced with glorious blue skies and bright sunlight, I've ridden above the clouds sunken in the valleys, another time the land was blanketed in snow but perhaps today we experienced the more common conditions desolate wild muted colours. There were still many walkers wrapped up warm, around Ribbleshead.
A series of valleys separated by uplands runs west to east.
......................................................................................
mountains
valley - Bentham, Ingleton, Clapham (from Lancaster in the west to Settle in the east)
upland - Forest of Bowland - Slaidburn
valley - Clitheroe, Remington, Gisburn
.........................................................................................
Donna
Our American cousin Donna has very kindly contacted me, and told me such interesting things about our common ancestors. She has rekindled interest in this branch of the family. It is so nice to have someone to share the journey. So thank you, thank you so much Donna. Donna has some photos and letters that are of such interest.
Our common ancestors are Henry Willis and Bridget Turner. Their story begins in the parish of Slaidburn an area I know nothing about. The Remington line descends from Ann Willis their daughter, Donna's line from their son Nicholas Willis.
I will post as we go along, from the point of view of someone who knows nothing, because I know when I look back on this in a couple of months time I shall have forgotten my train of thought. Suggestions and corrections welcomed.
Our common ancestors are Henry Willis and Bridget Turner. Their story begins in the parish of Slaidburn an area I know nothing about. The Remington line descends from Ann Willis their daughter, Donna's line from their son Nicholas Willis.
I will post as we go along, from the point of view of someone who knows nothing, because I know when I look back on this in a couple of months time I shall have forgotten my train of thought. Suggestions and corrections welcomed.
Wednesday 6 January 2010
Margaret Alice Townley 1863
To put the limits on this research, I have not done any primary document searching other than census. The ideas expressed here could very well be wrong. I would welcome other researchers opinions or suggestions.
The search for this lady's life and connection to the Remington tree began with the 1881 census. My GGG grandparents John and Isabella Remington had a farm Castle O'Trim in Over Wyresdale and alongside their own children were two nieces, one of whom was Margaret Alice Townley age 18 Dairymaid and born in Ingleton.
I searched back and forward on the census, then used Lancashire parishes online to find the details of Margaret's marriage, and used Free BMD to build up an hypothosis for Margaret's family.
In 1871 Margaret J Townley age 8 born Ingleton was a nurse to Francis and Margaret Whalley.
Using the BMD index I would suggest that Margaret belongs with this family :
marriage June quarter 1860 Settle
Richard Parr Townley + Jane Remington
birth June quarter 1861 Settle
William Remington Townley
birth June quarter 1863 Settle
Margaret Alice Townley
death September quarter 1863 Settle
Jane Townley
so Margaret's mother died when she was a baby. Her father appears to have remarried
marriage September quarter 1864 Liverpool
Richard Parr Townley + Margaret Davies
The problem is that when Margaret Alice married 23 Sep 1884 (St. James, Stalmine, details online) to William Cross her father is named as Peter. It does not look like Margaret was illegitimate. Could it be possible that Margaret did not know who her father was? As it seems she lived with family members that would not seem probable, although they were families connected to her mother. Could it be that she did not want to acknowledge her real father? There is on the 1851 census a Peter Townley age 20 born Higher Wyersdale living in Barnacre? (Garstang Stalmine) . But I have been unable to follow this family any further in the census. Margaret Alice Cross's age matches and birthplace given as Ingleton. Perhaps it was just a mistake, Margaret signed her marriage with a X, and she was not local to the area so her family was not known to whoever married them.
In 1861 Richard P Townley 28, his wife Jane 29 and son William R. 1m were living at Scar End, Ingleton with Jane's family parents William Remington 54 and Agnes 59 and brother John 26.
Between 1861 and 1871, Jane died, Agnes (Jane's mother) died, and Richard remarried. As in another branch of my family after the death of a mother the young children were split up sons going to the fathers side and daughters to the mothers. Perhaps Richard's new wife did not want to fetch up her step children.
Anyway in 1865 William Remington (Margaret Alice's grandfather) married Jane Danson widow of Robert Danson who had been schoolmaster and postmaster in Ingleton. Her daughter also married in 1865 Margaret Danson to Francis Whaley - with whom Margaret Alice was living in 1871 helping with the young children.
In 1871 grandfather William Remington and Uncle John were still living up at Scar End.
Margaret's brother William Townley age 10 born Ingleton was living in Cockerham with his other grandparents Richard Townley 70 (born Higher Wyersdale) and Alice 81, and uncle James 31 born Caton.
Their father was living in Liverpool with his new in-laws.
Richard P Townley 36 born Garstang, with wife Margaret 30 and children Winifred, Ada and Richard.
In later census Richard's birthplace is given as Caton, and he has further children Thomas, John and Margaret Ann. He died before 1901.
And what of Margaret Alice's brother, could this be him? Did he change his middle name from Remington to Parr?
1891 William P Townley 27 groom born Ingelton married to Elizabeth living in Ramsbottom.
(September quarter 1890 William Parr Townley + Elizabeth Smith)
and in 1901
William Townley 38 carter on sewage works born Ingleton, with wife Elizabeth 31 and children Richard 9, Thomas 4 and William 10m.
(September quarter 1891 birth Richard Parr Townley).
.............................................................................................
You might be interested in where Margaret Alice Townley was born. Assuming the family were still at Scar End at that time, there are many photos online of the area about as it forms part of the famous Ingleton Waterfall walk. I was luck enough to do this walk a few years ago - and it was wonderful. The walk goes right past Scar End farm and you really do feel as though you are on top of the world. I cannot copy and paste with this computer unfortunately but if you do a google search for Scar End Ingleton -the site "The waterfalls walk from Ingleton village." mywainwrights.co.uk has a map as well as photos and the Scar End - Wikipedia has a lovely photo of the panoramic view.
.........................................................................................
One question that has niggled and niggled and is still unanswered, is how John Remington came to move to Over Wyresdale perhaps the link might have been through Richard Parr Townley's family. We only have the smallest glimpse of our ancestors lives, one day in ten years so many questions unanswered. Was Margaret Alice shown love as a child, or was she a painful reminder of her mother, or was she viewed as a nuisance. How long did she work as a dairy maid for uncle John? Did she get on with her cousins? The other niece that was visiting in 1881 Dorothy Ann was the same age, were they friends? After her marriage did she keep in touch with her family in Over Wyresdale?
So do you think I have it right about Margaret Alice? Or do you think I am assuming too much.
..........................................
I have received a lovely reply through Genes from Gregory. Thank you for your thoughts on this and you raised two important points that I had missed.
Gregory pointed out that "There is no evidence of two different Margaret Alice Townleys both born in Ingleton around 1863"
and "In the marriage record, Margaret Alice Townley is described as "spinster of Shirehead," which is a place in Wyresdale."
Thank you also to Clive, also replying through Genes - he agrees it is probably the same lady.
Friday 21 September 2007
Letter from A. Borrow.
Well, first an apology for not posting on here for such a long time, real life has got in the way of my obsession. But that does not mean I have been idle, just not had the time to compose any new postings. I have had a busy summer but not totally with the Remington branch. I managed two trips over the summer, one to London to the British Library to look at a book and one to Ingleton to find Scar End farm. I shall post later about the Ingleton trip.
Margaret told me about this book : Valley of the Wild Stream: A History of Wildboarclough by Antony Borrow. It is where the information so kindly passed on by Sheila came from. I tried to borrow this book from Manchester library and was advised by them that there was a copy of the book available for reference at the British Library in London. Well, not one to be daunted I had to contrived to get there. Joseph could be persuaded with the prospect of a train trip and Cariad very kindly provided an extra reason by flying back from the USA after a choir trip and wanted to be 'met'. We stayed at the youth hostel, which was very convenient - opposite the British Library and close to three London main stations. However as usual things did not go smoothly. I had planned to spend a full day in the Library looking at this book but when we got there, and we were there for opening time, I was told under 18s could not go in the reading rooms. Disaster!!!! I had to rethink and re plan. You have to have a readers card to use the library so decided to get that and order the book for the following day - I must say I was not impressed with the British Library - I thought they were most unfriendly. I know they must get fed up with people who do not know the routine but it is quite overwhelming and different to other libraries. Firstly they appeared quite indignant that I was unaware of the rule about under 18s, then you have to go through a quite rigorous procedure to get your readers card- providing not just identification and proof of your address but also the reason you want to use the library, luckily I had the letter from Manchester Library. They then very 'kindly' issue you with a card with your photo on valid for a month. So if you go again you have to go through this all over again. Part way through this procedure their computers 'went down'......this was a good thing for me, people were turned away with the helpful advise that they did not know when they could register and the room emptied. As we were at a loose end this did not matter and the room became nice and quiet. You have to fill in your details on a computer and order books by computer. Not being very good on computers I found this difficult to do. Again I think the library could have made this easier. The actual building itself I did not like - big empty modern and soulless. A huge entrance hall, impressive but cold and empty and useless. I think it would have made more sense to have larger reading rooms. Mind you, I was probably being all negative because I was disappointed. Anyway we ended up spending the day walking about London and getting absolutely drenched. Joseph saw Waterloo, Kings Cross and St. Pancras stations so he was happy. The following day, I managed two hours in the library and Joseph stayed with Cariad.
There are two volumes to this book. They are hardback and about the size of a large old fashioned bible. I liked the look of them straight away and I think I was so excited I was shaking. Now I really did just glance through the pages and it was just the kind of book that I love. Not only does Mr. Borrow provide all his research details he also gives lots of background detail and tries to explain why things happened. He has an 'easy' (by that I mean enjoyable) to read writing style and the layout of the pages is good. I used the index to quickly look at the references to Remington. I have written to Mr. Borrow to ask him if I could quote from his book and I have received a lovely letter back. He has told me that there are other reference copies of his book at Macclesfield Library and in the library of the Cheshire Family History Society at Alderley Edge. So I am planning on going to Macclesfield at half term to have another more detailed look and check the notes I made in London. I will then posted them on here.
The general impression that I got from Mr. Borrow's book was that when William and Henry moved to Wildboarclough it was a time of investment and improvement in the valley but when the estate was inherited by the son he did not have the same attitude. So the fortunes of farmers not only depended on their own hard work but were subjected to the will of the landowners. Mr Borrow also wrote about agriculture in general and the difficulties faced.
There is a section in the book about Gamekeepers which is very interesting. I wonder how many gamekeepers there were in the valley at one time. There is reference to Henry in his capacity as gamekeeper being involved in the prosecution of a poacher.
Another interesting avenue of thought - both Remington brothers were involved in the Conservatives (? need to double check this, as I was running out of time and my notes by this time were a scribble - you are only allowed to use a pencil in the British Library). I had not thought about political leanings before.
To bring this post to a close a message to Mr. Borrow, if you manage to find your way here. Welcome and thank you once again for publishing such an inspirational book.
Margaret told me about this book : Valley of the Wild Stream: A History of Wildboarclough by Antony Borrow. It is where the information so kindly passed on by Sheila came from. I tried to borrow this book from Manchester library and was advised by them that there was a copy of the book available for reference at the British Library in London. Well, not one to be daunted I had to contrived to get there. Joseph could be persuaded with the prospect of a train trip and Cariad very kindly provided an extra reason by flying back from the USA after a choir trip and wanted to be 'met'. We stayed at the youth hostel, which was very convenient - opposite the British Library and close to three London main stations. However as usual things did not go smoothly. I had planned to spend a full day in the Library looking at this book but when we got there, and we were there for opening time, I was told under 18s could not go in the reading rooms. Disaster!!!! I had to rethink and re plan. You have to have a readers card to use the library so decided to get that and order the book for the following day - I must say I was not impressed with the British Library - I thought they were most unfriendly. I know they must get fed up with people who do not know the routine but it is quite overwhelming and different to other libraries. Firstly they appeared quite indignant that I was unaware of the rule about under 18s, then you have to go through a quite rigorous procedure to get your readers card- providing not just identification and proof of your address but also the reason you want to use the library, luckily I had the letter from Manchester Library. They then very 'kindly' issue you with a card with your photo on valid for a month. So if you go again you have to go through this all over again. Part way through this procedure their computers 'went down'......this was a good thing for me, people were turned away with the helpful advise that they did not know when they could register and the room emptied. As we were at a loose end this did not matter and the room became nice and quiet. You have to fill in your details on a computer and order books by computer. Not being very good on computers I found this difficult to do. Again I think the library could have made this easier. The actual building itself I did not like - big empty modern and soulless. A huge entrance hall, impressive but cold and empty and useless. I think it would have made more sense to have larger reading rooms. Mind you, I was probably being all negative because I was disappointed. Anyway we ended up spending the day walking about London and getting absolutely drenched. Joseph saw Waterloo, Kings Cross and St. Pancras stations so he was happy. The following day, I managed two hours in the library and Joseph stayed with Cariad.
There are two volumes to this book. They are hardback and about the size of a large old fashioned bible. I liked the look of them straight away and I think I was so excited I was shaking. Now I really did just glance through the pages and it was just the kind of book that I love. Not only does Mr. Borrow provide all his research details he also gives lots of background detail and tries to explain why things happened. He has an 'easy' (by that I mean enjoyable) to read writing style and the layout of the pages is good. I used the index to quickly look at the references to Remington. I have written to Mr. Borrow to ask him if I could quote from his book and I have received a lovely letter back. He has told me that there are other reference copies of his book at Macclesfield Library and in the library of the Cheshire Family History Society at Alderley Edge. So I am planning on going to Macclesfield at half term to have another more detailed look and check the notes I made in London. I will then posted them on here.
The general impression that I got from Mr. Borrow's book was that when William and Henry moved to Wildboarclough it was a time of investment and improvement in the valley but when the estate was inherited by the son he did not have the same attitude. So the fortunes of farmers not only depended on their own hard work but were subjected to the will of the landowners. Mr Borrow also wrote about agriculture in general and the difficulties faced.
There is a section in the book about Gamekeepers which is very interesting. I wonder how many gamekeepers there were in the valley at one time. There is reference to Henry in his capacity as gamekeeper being involved in the prosecution of a poacher.
Another interesting avenue of thought - both Remington brothers were involved in the Conservatives (? need to double check this, as I was running out of time and my notes by this time were a scribble - you are only allowed to use a pencil in the British Library). I had not thought about political leanings before.
To bring this post to a close a message to Mr. Borrow, if you manage to find your way here. Welcome and thank you once again for publishing such an inspirational book.
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